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A brief history of the 2013 market peak; why some alts really do die; and what would've happened if you'd given in to FOMO

This piece is a follow-up to my earlier piece, which looked at what would’ve happened if you’d purchased alt-coins shortly after the bottom of the 2013-2015 bear market. A lot of the constructive criticism that I received was that I was too bullish on alt-coins, and that the timing was too convenient. Although it’s fair to say that I am bullish on crypto in general and alt-coins in particular (with several major caveats for both), I agree that it’s important to not just focus on historical analyses where it’s fairly clear that you could have earned money. So, today’s research question is whether you’d still be underwater if you’d bought in to the market at or near the 2013 all-time high. All information cited herein comes from the historical charts available at CoinMarketCap.
TL;DR: This worst-case scenario analysis shows that $300 invested equally across 15 of the 40 coins in existence near the market’s peak in 2013 would be worth only $429.95 today—gains which are entirely attributable to Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Ripple. This is basic, but it can be dangerous to buy high. This is especially true of alt-coins, but even the top three coins in our sample saw fairly lackluster results when bought at the top of the market. Finally, nothing in this post should be taken as investment advice. This is only intended as historical analysis. Past performance does not guarantee future returns.
A Brief History of the 2013 Market Peak
According to CoinMarketCap, the 2013 bull market peaked on December 4, 2013, at ~$15.87 billion in market capitalization.* Thereafter, the market crashed dramatically not once, but twice. In the first crash, which occurred between December 5-8, 2013, overall market cap fell by ~39% to ~$9.66 billion. Then, after a brief recovery to ~$13.57 billion on December 10th, the market fell precipitously, to ~$5.7 billion on December 18, 2013. Thus, over the course of only two weeks, from December 4-18, 2013, the market lost ~64% of its value. Although this was by no means the end of the 2013-2015 bear market--which lasted for approximately 17 months and saw an additional decline of ~45% from the December 18, 2013 low--this was the end of the beginning.
What If I Bought Crypto Right as the 2013 Market Peaked?
Generally, the first rule of trading is** that you want to buy low and sell high. As a result of their fear of missing out (“FOMO”), however, many people find themselves accidentally buying high. Today, I’m going to look at what would have happened to someone who bought their crypto right as the market was peaking. Ideally, I would run this experiment from December 4, 2013, but due to the limited data available from CoinMarketCap, I’m forced to choose between November 24th, December 1st, December 8th, and December 15th. Of those dates, I have selected December 1, 2013, because it represents the worst possible scenario for which I have data. On that date, total crypto market cap, which had hit a new high of ~$15.4 billion the day before, swung wildly between a high of ~$14.83 billion and a low of ~$12.18 billion. Unfortunately, it’s unclear exactly when CoinMarketCap’s snapshot was taken. That said, it’s clear that our hypothetical FOMO trader is about to lose his shirt over the next few weeks, so let’s dive into the specifics.
On December 1, 2013, there were 40 coins listed on CoinMarketCap. I won’t list them all here, but of those 40, all but 11 are still listed as active on CoinMarketCap. The truly dead (or “inactive”) coins are BBQCoin (BQC; rank 16), Devcoin (DVC; rank 19), Tickets (TIX; rank 22), Copperlark (CLR; rank 24), StableCoin (SBC; rank 25), Luckycoin (LKY—ironic, I realize; rank 31), Franko (FRK; rank 34), Bytecoin (BTE; rank 35), Junkcoin (JKE—how apt; rank 36), CraftCoin (CRC; rank 39), and Colossuscoin (COL; rank 40).***
Now, since this post is already incredibly long, instead of testing all 40 coins, let’s take a decently-sized sample of five coins each from the top, middle, and bottom of the stack, and look at what happens. For the middle, although the temptation is to take decent alts, let’s fight that and take the group with the highest failure rate: ranks 21-25. So, here’s out pool:
Now, here are how our sample of coins has performed as of when I write this:****
So, if our hypothetical FOMO trader had invested $100 in our top-five sample near the 2013 peak, it would currently be worth $411.80 (the profitable coins) + $3.06 (PPC) + $4.27 (NMC) = $419.13—a 4.19x increase.
Now for the two coins in the middle five that didn’t completely die:
So, if our hypothetical FOMO trader had invested $100 in our middle-five sample near the 2013 peak, it would currently be worth ~$15.19—an ~84.8% loss.
Finally, here are the two coins from the bottom five that didn’t completely die:
So, excluding everything buy Argentum, if our hypothetical FOMO trader had invested $100 in our bottom-five sample near the 2013 peak, it would currently be worth ~$2.96—a ~97% loss. Putting it all together, $300 invested in this sample of 15 coins as close to the peak of the 2013 market as the data will let me get, would be worth $429.95—a disappointing, but not-unexpected ~30.2% increase over five years. That said, I’m honestly somewhat amazed our FOMO trader made anything at all on this basket of coins, considering how many of them failed. In any case, all of his gains came from the top-three coins from 2013: Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Ripple.
What’s the lesson here, what’s the takeaway?***** Most importantly, I think the above analysis shows that it can be very dangerous to buy alt-coins when the market is at or near an all-time high—a conclusion that appears to be true regardless of where the alt is positioned in the market. That said, there are a few caveats: (1) this sample was intentionally bad, in order to reflect a worst-case scenario; (2) even buying the top-three coins at the all-time high didn’t net our FOMO trader particularly large gains when compared to someone who bought these same coins after the crash. Therefore, I think that the most important lesson here is not to buy high in the first place. Investing solely because of FOMO will probably cause you to lose money, unless you have invested equally in a broad range of cryptocurrencies, like the trader in our hypothetical. Even then, however, our FOMO trader probably would have done better investing in an S&P Index fund over the same period.
*This is a correction to my earlier piece, in which I stated that the cryptocurrency market peaked on November 30, 2013, at a total market capitalization of ~$15.2 billion. I made this error due to having failed to narrow the date range of the chart so I could properly zoon in. That said, the exact details of the market peak don’t affect the conclusions from my last piece, which considered trades made after the market had bottomed out.
** …you do not talk about trading. Wait, that’s the wrong rulebook.
*** Since I already typed it out, here’s the list of remaining active coins, in descending order: Bitcoin (BTC), Litecoin (LTC), Ripple (XRP), Peercoin (PPC), Namecoin (NMC), Megacoin (MEC), Feathercoin (FTC), WorldCoin (WDC), Primecoin (XPM), Freicoin (FRC), Novacoin (NVC), Zetacoin (ZET), Infinitecoin (IFC), Terracoin (TRC), Crypto Bullion (CBX), Anoncoin (ANC), Digitalcoin (DGC), GoldCoin (GLD), Yacoin (YAC), Ixcoin (IXC), Fastcoin (FST), BitBar (BTB), Mincoin (MNC), Tagcoin (TAG), FlorinCoin (FLO), I0Coin (I0C), Phoenixcoin (PXC), Argentum (ARG), Elacoin (ELC)
**** I know that we could have sold them sooner, and probably for more money, but let’s just assume that our hypothetical FOMO trader was a founding member of the #hodlgang. ;-)
***** Don’t mess with Maui when he’s on a breakaway! You’re welcome. ;-)
Disclosures: I have previous held Litecoin, and currently hold approximately $140 of Ripple. I do not believe this influenced my analysis in any way. I have never bought or held any of the other coins discussed in this analysis.
Edits: Formatting, typos, minor clarifications.
submitted by ThaneduFife to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Dogecoin is broken. Merry christmas!

So one downside of this particular copy/paste coin: it's very cheap to bloat the blockchain. Tweaking the money supply without tweaking the minimum transaction size or transaction fee means that it cost about $0.000001 per gigabyte, or less than $1 to make it too big for anyone to download. Someone check my math on this, I'm using 0.0001 as the tx fee and 0.00000001 * ~2500 as the output amounts.
It took a dumb college kid an hour of work to make a script that adds 1gb to the dogechain every few days. This is using the QT client and shitty sleep() synchronization (how do you pass the minconf arg with jsonrpc? anyone?). I'm sure someone with another hour and more bitcoin RPC knowledge could put dogecoind on a few AWS instances and make it so the blockchain doesn't fit on an average hard drive in less than a day.
I didn't give a shit until I read about some poor schmuck investing 1.5btc into this. You guys are straight up irresponsible for promoting / encouraging that.
The only solution I can think of is to raise the transaction fee significantly. Something like 10 doge should be enough. Fortunately there's no effective way to short cryptocurrencies yet, otherwise you wouldn't be able to make it high enough. Either that, or actually innovate (wow!) by implementing a rotating blockchain or something.
The script:
(this jsonrpc version: )
"addrs.txt" is generated with:
./vanitygen -k -X 30 D | awk '(NR + 1) % 3 == 0' | sed -e 's/^Address: //' >> ../../scripts/addrs.txt 
Check out the transaction:
Anyway, I'm gonna stop running this because I have nothing to gain and don't want to be a dick. But seriously, stop promoting dogecoin until you guys figure this out.
edit: formatting
edit 2: If anyone is actually planning on running this, please do us a favor and attack Megacoin or Quark or Worldcoin instead. Those are scamcoins that aren't even claiming to be just for fun. At least dogecoin has tremendous educational value.
submitted by dogecoinsavior to dogecoin [link] [comments]

Of Wolves And Weasels - Day 9 - Now This is More Like it!

Hey all! GoodShibe here!
Are you smiling? I bet you're smiling.
I know the people who bought in at 25/26 are smiling - especially since a good number of these shibes are pretty much responsible for our current stability.
Yesterday was what I like to call a 'leg stretching' day. We all got up, took our Doges for a walk, felt better. It was a bright, sunny day in the digital park. We checked the papers, found out that we're getting [all] [sorts] of [great] [press].
Heck, Wall Street Journal's writing about us.
Confidence is higher than it's been for a good, long while. People are starting to talk about us more as the Internet's 'Tipping' Currency instead of that silly 'Internet Joke Coin'.
And we're barely a month and a half old.
So, that's the good news. We're bringing lots of new, fresh faces to Dogecoin right now. AND we're actually being used as a currency (ALOT) -- Thanks for the laugh cdeverett, tip this one well, people! -- unlike many of the other coins.
Here's a snapshot of the last 24-hours over the various exchanges:
The less good news is that our price stability appears to be temporary. At 47/48... we're not really there yet. Yesterday I mentioned our collective 'unreadiness' to jump and hold the 50 Satoshi barrier and that pretty much proved true. We got right up to the fence - a few got over - but quickly dug back in under after seeing what's on the other side. And hey, it's a big scary world out there. It's okay, our time will come.
Right now there's a lot of work being done trying to hold our prices on the markets - an effort that, sadly, I don't think is going to pan out. Lots of people playing in the margins yesterday gave us a sense of stability. Where I was seeing walls being built at the 50 satoshi barrier yesterday (5+ BTC), now I'm starting to see walls going up at 48 and that number, 46 is coming up a lot more often. Also, if you look across the spread, you'll see that the markets really aren't in agreement -- which says to me that there's some work being done, on specific, exchanges, to try and stabilize the price.
Don't worry if we fall a tad. More importantly, don't fall for a pump and dump. There's most likely a cliff coming, probably mid-day today (EST) as multipool and friends take this opportunity clean house -- again, I could be entirely wrong (And I hope I am). Keep an eye on when things start to dip, don't panic. Breathe. Hold your DOGEs.
Last night our Global Hashrate spiked into the 40 Gigahashes/second but generally settled into the new norm of the low-to-mid-30s. Difficulty again increased - spiking to ~514 around 4am EST but fell back into the low-to-mid 400s.
We're back at the top of the heap at Multipool, with a profitability of 35.33 compared to Worldcoin's 32.88 in second place.
Right now it's 9:09 AM EST, your Global Hashrate is rising slightly at 34 Gigahashes per second and Difficulty is also rising at 459.
Please folks, remember to KEEP MINING! Even if you're not making many DOGEs. Every DOGE you make is one more for you and one less DOGE being auto-sold on the markets, lowering our value. Let's keep the global hashrate up, keep the difficulty up.
As always, I thank you all for your support!
@GoodShibe (subtle plug detected :P)
submitted by GoodShibe to dogecoin [link] [comments]

We need a FedoraCoin forum urgently!

Here are my thoughts on the matter:
FedoraCoin is a really great coin with great features and really good devs. Now, is that really enough for a cryptocurrency to survive and thrive? I want to argue that it's not. It's easy to copy coins and enhance their features, we have an extremely competitive market with almost a limitless number of coins, with new coins that always try to be better, offer more features and reach new markets. I would argue we live in a Darwinian place, and those who don't keep evolving as fast as they can will end up as a name in the fossil record. We are still in the kids-shoes stage of the whole cryptocurrency economy that's just being formed. We absolutely need to remember that this is a dynamic and kind of 'alive' system, where even if you had the perfect solution, if no body uses it, it's as good as a piece of stone. In other words, it's not enough for a coin to have attractive features, and clever devs who can come up with innovative solutions when necessary. These are only the basic necessary features that a coin would ideally have so that it may thrive in the future, but they are not enough at all. What's needed in addition to these features, is a community, an active and enthusiastic community that has a vision(s) for the future of the coin, and has the innovative business people who want to build upon what's available to create uses and profit from their endeavours. I strongly argue that a cryptocurrency without a community of innovators and businessmen is to become worthless in the future and it's value while it exists is nothing but speculations and gamblings of those willing to take the risk in the hope that it may succeed one day if they're not only in it for the quick buck.
This is the idea that I want to make sure we all become aware of. Without a community of innovators and businessmen, FedoraCoin with all it's nice features and lovely properties is as good as the next coin on the 500+ list of coins. Devs alone are not enough, their job in my opinion is just to maintain the essential building blocks and keep them upto speed with what's necessary in this fast evolving world of cryptocurrency. But they are far far away from creating any business or all the tools necessary to make the coin really useful to a worldwide audience. It's not possible and shouldn't be their job, we must be clear on this. Such a work must come from the community, only a community can have the diversity, multitude of ideas and innovations necessary to help the coin thrive and be used in the real world. So, how do we make sure we cultivate and ENABLE such a community to form??
We need a tool of communication that can do the job, a place for those people to get together and talk about their own ideas, separately, in an environment where they can stay on their subject and follow up etc. What I see in the only tools we currently have, namely reddit, bitcointalk forum, and irc channel, are mainly like a river of ideas and threads that keeps flowing, you toss in the idea and before you know it it's already washed down the stream and even if some people jump on the boat for a while the interested parties need to get off to a separate place on private messaging or whatever to be able to talk, meaning the idea can be followed up by only the two or three persons who liked it and were present at the time, and it quickly dies away since there is no momentum. I think it's obvious where I'm going with this, and I had to stretch out my idea and write all this just to make sure I make my case, that's because I've proposed this idea numerous times before on the bitcointalk forum as well as on the irc channel, but again it was just flushed down the stream and got forgotten. I don't have the expertise needed to create a new forum, so with this post I'm appealing to you all, the devs and the community, hoping you may take up this idea and create that forum. It's absolutely necessary in my opinion if FedoraCoin is ever to move from the realm of just another cryptocoin in the exchange markets to a truely useful tool in the realm of internet economy with actual users and businesses and customers, tippers etc. We have a wide wild west to explore, markets just waiting for the right idea, the whole blogger-socialnetworks sphere to exploit and innovate in it but nothing is happening because there is no momentum, no organization, just chaos of seprate chatter here and there. We already have great examples of forums which we can learn from, I give you here two such communities:
these are two of the most active communities I've ever seen apart from bitcoin and we need to have such a forum in order to let innovative people meet and create their own side projects and develop their own new tools and businesses with FedoraCoin. We can discuss what the subsections should be and what categories are needed, but for now let's just see that such a specialized forum IS NEEDED. We can have a section devoted to community projects, so separate projects can be suggested and the interested would get in on them. We would have a section devoted to discuss mining, the current hashrate and how to defend against ASICS etc. all different specialized places. The previous two communities I showed have even weekly and monthly reports from the devs to keep the community up to date on the current projects and next milestones. We need that if we want a community that believes in the coin and the devs and that can innovate on its own and take FedoraCoin to the next level. Other projects can start to give updates and reports when they are done, we could have a section dedicated to the finished projects and their final status to let people know how they can use them.
I hope with this post I could persuade you to see the urgency of having this forum, and I hope to get those who have the ability to create such a place to communicate here and got it done! Otherwise as sad as this would make me, I don't think TiPS will be more than any other coin that will get hyped in the next cycle and then dumped again and I would have to get out cuz all the potential it has would be just theory on paper and it won't be realized because we lack the momentum and the number of innovators working on it. I hope we can get this done!!
And in that spirit, live long and prosper, and together, may we forge ahead towards a bright future! but to get there, we still have a job to do I believe :)
ps. for those who are downvoting, would you please comment on why you downvoted?
pss. if this post gets 25 points score then icanprogram will make it happen! so don't forget to vote!
submitted by id10tothe9 to FedoraCoin [link] [comments]

List of all crypto currencies that have ever existed

I've attempted to list all the crypto currencies ever, which took many hours and much searching. If I missed any, which I'll be extremely surprised if I didn't, please tell me and I'll add it to the list.
66 Coin
Amazon Coin
Bitcoin sCrypt
Copper Bars
Cryptographic Amomaly
Deutsche eMark
Electronic Benefit Transfer
Flappy coin
Florin coin
Geist Geld
Gold Coin
Gold Pressed Latinum
GPU Coin
Imperial Coin
Insanity Coin
Kimoto Gravity Well
Klingon Darsek
Lottery Tickets
Magic Internet Money
Mason Coin
Mint coin
MMM coin
No Coin
One last coin
PKR coin
Popular Coin
PyBy Coin
Quick Quick Coin
Rare Coin
Sauron Rings
SHIT coin
Sun Coin
UFC StarTrek
UFO coin
Union Coin
Yuan Bao Coin
submitted by turtlecane to dogecoin [link] [comments]

A rant why we are worth at least $8,000,000

At the time of this writing, Mazdacoin, Worldcoin, Novacoin, Infinitecoin, Megacoin, Primecoin, and Feathercoin are the difference between Vertcoin being valued at $3,000,000 million and around $8,000,000 (or around $4 per Vertcoin).
Marketcap is important. Its the most important thing that values who’s making it as a coin. The sole exceptions are cases like Ripple and Auroracoin where the distribution of the coin is not real (where the majority of the ‘coin’ is held and not available in the market).
Mazdacoin. You lucky son of a gun. You jumped on the ‘sovereign nation’ coin at the right time. You were even the first one to try this gimmick. Good job! Sorry to break it to you, but nation coins cannot be successful. I’m sorry. You want a small group of people to collectively call a coin their own? Fine. But it cannot be used as currency in your ‘nation’ when everyone in the world can manipulate it. The truth is outside your small nation people can use the coin to continuously gamble on pump and dumps. Cryptocurrency in general cannot be used for specific populations because it allows outside forces to manipulate it. I guarantee you there will be Panamacoins and UKcoins and the most hyped of all Chinacoin (which will be awesome to get in the first day) that will pump and dump that may be temporarily successful but will fail. These are not real coins.
Worldcoin. I don’t even know how you are what you are. You are like the litecoin of litecoin. The 2% of the 2%. I suppose keep doing what your doing, but I’m not a big fan of the .04%.
Novacoin. The peercoin of peercoin. Again I don’t even know what you are or what makes you you. Good luck.
Infinitecoin. You have so many coins! More coins means like more decimal spots or something. Strange gimmick.
Megacoin. You seem to just appeal to people interested in crypto… I think you may be the great great grandson of bitcoin. You have no gimmick.
Primecoin. I my geeky side likes you. You make a coin seem sorta useful. Maybe you will discover through prime numbers the meaning of life or something. Other than that… well I can’t think of too much to say.
Feathercoin! You are valued at where we should be. You are just another litecoin clone with a few variables changed. Why not as useful as Vertcoin, you are what we want to be at the current time.
Anyways happy verting. Good luck folks.
***edit This is of course said knowing that Vertcoin has advantages to these generalizations. A community that surpasses all of them in size. In activism. In usefulness. We have active devs working on furthering our cause. A distinction of being decentralized and anti-ASIC which will become a huge factor. A awesome marketing advantage in our professionalism, logo, website, reddit, ect. Go Vert!
submitted by vertcoinz to vertcoin [link] [comments]

A currency for us all to unite - UnitedCoin

Hello there.
I am here to present to you an idea that I have, one that I have spent many sleepless nights thinking about.
When I started paying attention to bitcoin, I laughed it off as an immature high school person way back in 2010. After paying attention closely, I have realized that there are so many fantastic things that this presents to us that it is mind boggling. I would go on and say that I am not an economics major, but in fact I am working on a degree related to that, and this is why I have some things that I feel the need to express.
Bitcoin is fantastic, but there are things that I see that make it a little bit unfeasible in the future. Deflation namely is one of those things, and the sad fact that there will only ever be an x number of bitcoin available. the former causes the prior, and that is one thing that I feel can be fixed. Along with this are a speedier confirm/transaction time that litecoin attempted.
However, to me, litecoin (being 4x faster I believe) transactions still leaves room for something to be desired.
Worldcoin has very fast transaction times and I am immensely proud of the work they have done. However, they also have a set amount of coins and for reasons stated above, it would lead to deflation if mass adoption were to be achieved.
Feathercoin is also something that is amazing. Their checkpointing is quite astounding and needs to be lauded. They are not immune to the most catastrophic thing that can happen to a cryptocurrency, but they are very close to it. It is absolutely secure, and I do believe it is the most secure of any cryptocurrency.
With that being said, I would like to outline my plan for UnitedCoin. I am not the most technologically advanced person in the world, but I am able to learn quickly and adapt; it has made me operate a successful testnet in 1 day. (Hence title)
My plans for UnitedCoin are as follows.
  1. There will not be deflation on this coin. There will be an acceptable rate of inflation after 5 years of mining and onward. The reason being, there will be no limit of coins (or at least limit that will be reached in our lifetimes). This in its essence allows room for growth. If there is no cap on the amount of coins that are available, there will always be a supply, small, yet a steady stream of supply. The idea of this came from looking at the cryptocurrency Diamond, and that got me thinking. Diamonds, if all released into the market now, would be amazingly affordable. Because they are hoarded and released sparingly every year, there is an extreme uptick in value which makes it so unaffordable for the average person.
  2. It will be secure. I don't know if Feathercoin's Advanced Checkpointing is open source (i assume it would be), but this has to be included in the build that is released. There is nothing more terrible than something that has been adopted, only to fork and create issues for those who take it as payment.
Here are the specifications that I see UnitedCoin having:
BlockTime: 60 seconds Confirmations: 2 Difficulty: Retargets every 12 hours (720 blocks) Reward: .1 coins Coins: 5,256,000
This is my explanation. The blocktime is fast enough to see results at a fairly decent rate.
Difficulty is something I have yet to work out. I believe that this time may be a bit too long, but I would not want it being too difficult for extended periods of time once difficulty picks up.
Coins. There will be a total of 5,256,000 coins available. At the current rate of mining, it would take 100 years to mine all of the coins. This is plenty of time for adoption, and plenty of time to stabilize inflation as well as create a constant addition to the market.
If there are any of you who would like to add to or detract from the ideas I have here, or you are looking or wanting to assist on this, feel free to comment. I would be quite happy to respond, or even change things. This is a currency to unite us and for us to united around, so your ideas are very appreciated.
submitted by UnitedCoin to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Elliott Wave analyst's thoughts on Bitcoin

(NB: typos mine; crappy OCR software. If anyone wants to see the Eliott Wave he's discussing and I'll make it available.)
Bitcoin Bubble or Bitcoin Breakthrough? How about both?
by Elliott Prechter
December 20, 2013 in the Elliott Wave Theorist
EWT discussed Bitcoin for the first time in August 2010, when the currency traded at six cents. As far as we know, EWI was the first financial publisher to discuss it. Bitcoin was unknown to the general public and off private investors’ radar. Even the earliest adopters did not take it as seriously as they should have. The most notable example of this is the man who paid 10,000 BTC for a pizza. This pizza purchase is now famous (, and many continue to track its price in USD terms via the “Bitcoin Pizza Index," which recently hit an all-time high of over S12 million.
Fast forward to today, and the currency is regularly featured in financial news and social media. Bitcoin Magazine has become popular, Congress is holding hearings on the currency, Germany has defined its role in finance, China is ruling on its legality, and the business world is adopting it. The most prominent business to embrace Bitcoin is Virgin Galactic, one of the many creations of billionaire Richard Branson (
EWT readers were prepared for all this. When Bitcoin was still in the shadows, the August 2012 issue said,
Presuming bitcoin succeeds as the world’s best currency-and I believe it will-it should rise many more multiples in value over the years. -EWT, August 2012
The big question on the minds of investors is not what Bitcoin has achieved, but should they buy Bitcoins now? It’s amusing that so many people ignored Bitcoin upon hearing about it in 20 1 0, but now that its price has gone up 20,000 times, they want to invest. Notwithstanding the currency’s potential, this shift in attitude is a signal saying now is not the time to buy. Let’s look at four areas of evidence:
1) Optimism is off the charts. Past issues of The Elliott Wave Financial Forecast discussed people selling their homes and borrowing money to invest in Bitcoins. That was near the peak of wave Now the desire to buy has grown even more extreme. Bloggers are calling for Bitcoin to reach S1 million. . .soon. One young investor borrowed a million dollars from his father and without his knowledge invested it in Bitcoin ( The other day I walked into a convenience store wearing a Bitcoin T-shirt, and the owner asked me if he should invest now. I felt like I was living in 1929.
2) Investors have recently been rushing to buy a rash of 95 (at last count; see https://bitcointalk. org/index.php?topic=l34179.0) new clones of Bitcoin that have recently emerged: Litecoin, Namecoin, Zerocoin, BBQCoin, PPcoin, PrimeCoin, NovaCoin, FeatherCoin, TerraCoin, Devcoin, Megacoin, Mincoin, DigitalCoin, Anoncoin, Worldcoin, Freicoin, IxCoin... and more. (That they are clones is obvious from the lack of imagination in naming.) This rush of clones is reminiscent of the South Sea bubble of 1720 and the dot-com mania of 1999, when shares of zero-profit, copycat companies (and even fake ones) sold like hotcakes. Virtually every week now, the Bitcoin code is forked into a new coin that investors bid up. lt’s as if buyers feel the world will run out of cryptocurrency, which in fact is infinitely and freely duplicable.
3) The Elliott wave pattern from Bitcoin’s inception shows five waves up. The December ll Short Term Update noted that a major top was potentially in place: The peak [in Bitcoin] came 10 days after U.S. officials, ranging from an assistant attorney general with the Department of Justice to Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, “spoke approvingly of the potential of virtual currencies." So, here again, the government is getting on board at the very tail end ofa long rise. Since we posted that comment, Bitcoin has fallen an additional 40%, bringing it down nearly 60% from its all-time high.
Will this prove to be just another brief, sharp correction or something larger? Take a look at the completed impulse pattern shown in Figure 3. The structure begins very near the inception of the currency three-plus years ago, when it was selling for a penny. Notice that wave @ is a triangle (see text, p.49), which typically comes in the fourth-wave position. Wave a thrust, carried to the all-time high of S 1242 on November 29. The reversal from that point should mark the start of the largest bear market to date in the currency. This forecast is in tune with the anticipated bear market in the broader stock averages, which have strongly correlated with Bitcoin’s pattern.
The chart is in log scale to show the returns one would have achieved in each impulse leg of the pattern. Wave Q) achieved a stunning 3 19ox gain. Wave ® achieved 59.3% (a Fibonacci 3/5) of the gain of wave Q). Wave ® (measured from the low of wave @) achieved 39.3% (a Fibonacci 2/5) of the gain of wave (D and 66.3% (a Fibonacci 2/3) of the gain of wave Therefore, while each upward move has been large, each successive wave has been decelerating in log terms relative to past waves, in each case by a Fibonacci multiple. Also notice that Bitcoin trades more like a commodity than a stock, with its blow-off tops and extended fifih waves. Most of the gain since early 20 12 has been within (5) of ® and the final wave all of which is probable retracement territory.
4) Most people involved in this mania seem oblivious to Bitcoin’s fundamentals. In my experience, raising these issues publicly earns scorn for spreading “FUD.” But there is a good reason-now widely ignored-that Bitcoin is beta software. Our August 2010 piece explained how Bitcoin operates, but it’s worth revisiting some details to understand just how out-of-touch investor expectations are with the reality of Bitcoin technology. Specifically, let's examine the limitations of Bitcoin’s blockchain.
The blockchain is the heart of Bitcoin. In its simplest form, the blockchain is a public ledger of all transactions that happen in the Bitcoin network. Each block is composed of individual records that track the ownership of each coin. The transactions “fit” together cryptographically. A block is created about once every 10 minutes by the network. Each block is then cryptographically linked to the previous blocks in the chain, forming a history of all transactions that-to Bitcoin’s credit-cannot be forged. To the extent that Bitcoin currency is real, it could be said that the blockchain is the Bitcoin currency.
Yet the core problem with the blockchain is that it grows over time and must be shared by every fiill Bitcoin node. Today it is nearing 13 GB in size. Now, 13 GB doesn't sound too large, but at the current rates of exponential growth the blockchain is projected to become over a terabyte in size in just three years. What's more, the amount of accompanying data required to handle just a fraction of Visa-level traffic would overwhelm even the fastest Internet connections. This technical hurdle makes the “Bitcoin is going to a million” commentary seem premature.
The hope for Bitcoin’s future lies in its open-source nature, allowing it to be improved, and Moore’s Law. Moore’s Law is colloquially used to signify the exponential increases in computer-hardware efficiency over time, including network capacity. But Moore’s law-which calls for a doubling of computer speed every two years-has hit a snag in recent years: the rate of improvement in performance has dramatically slowed, causing many experts to call for the end of the operation of Moore’s law. (For the record, Moore’s Law was never intended to refer to computer hardware performance, but the media have confused the term to the point where it is now generally used in this context. Originally, it was intended to refer to the increase in the number of transistors that are packed into microchips.)
The past four years have been an exciting ride for Bitcoin. But the evidence says the Bitcoin bull market is done for now. It would be best to put Bitcoin out of your mind for the duration of the deflationary wave that is curling toward the financial world. Due to the psychology surrounding Bitcoin, as well as its correlation with the stock indices, it is too risky to buy now. Due to its open-source nature, however, Bitcoin’s infrastructure should continue to improve over the years.
For the long run, I agree with Roger Ver, the CEO of memory dealers and one of Bitcoin’s earliest adopters, who recently said, “It is just getting started." But one could have said that about the U.S. stock market in 1966. It would have been visionary only if you were patient and willing to hold through a very deep valley. Our position is that Bitcoin will never again sell for 6 cents, as it did when EWT first wrote it up. But there will be another time to buy it for relative peanuts alongside stocks, real-estate, gold and silver. When the time comes, no one will be interested.
Elliott Prechter's primary task at EWI is working on EWA VES, our in-house artificial intelligence softwarefor analyzing Elliott waves.
submitted by Indy_Pendant to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Regarding the "Bitcoin and Magical Thinking" blog post spotlighted on Techmeme today - The network, the infrastructure, and the community behind it is hardly a "magical thought."

I'm referring to this post, which a Bitcoin-opposing friend just sent to me with the subject line, "An damning indictment" -
I responded with this:
The network, the infrastructure, and the community behind Bitcoin is hardly a "magical thought" (Here's the definition of that concept from contemporary Western psychology:
Two weeks ago, there was very good debate about Bitcoin -
Ultimate Bitcoin Showdown - Posted Dec 2, 2013 - [30:14] - Goldbug/dollar-skeptic Peter Schiff vs. Erik Voorhees, Bitcoin entrepreneur formerly of BitInstant (, now of Coinapult ( -
I'll post the link to the full video below, but I first want to quote from it:
As Voorhees says, gold-backed digital curencies have been attempted and were then quickly shut down by the gov't. He later says (at 9:20), "[Bitcoin] could absolutely go to zero and the whole thing is completely experimental right now. So I'm not here to say that Bitcoin is a good investment. What I'm here to say is that the Bitcoin payment network is one of the most important technologies that has ever been invented, and it's important to understand that there is value in that technology [and] it's important to understand why that technology is so useful to people, especially people who care about liberty around the world." And he explains later that this infrastructure cannot be reproduced easily...even if Bitcoin is not the winner of the crypto-currency market competition. He also compares the hardy vitality of P2P currencies to that of P2P file-sharing. The free, independent Napster file-sharing service was launched in June of 1999 an rocketed to popularity, but the shutdown of it in July of 2001 was not exactly the end of free P2P music-sharing... In fact, just going by the services that I can just recall fellow college students using at the time, there was:
SoulSeek (launched in 1999/2000)
Gnutella (early 2000)
BearShare (December 2000)
Morpheus (2001)
Kazaa (March 2001), and
LimeWire (May 2000).
And of course there are the file-sharing services that are popular today, from Dropbox to these:
to these:
Now. As far as digital crypto-currencies today, there's Litecoin, Peercoin, Namecoin, Quark, Protoshares, Worldcoin, Megacoin, Primecoin, and Dogecoin, and dozens other listed here, totaling in 54:
The point that Voorhees makes about the pooled inventiveness and ingenuity of the crowd reminds me of something both revolutionary and prophetic that was said by John Gilmore (an American computer science innovator, Libertarian, Internet activist, and one of the founders of Electronic Frontier Foundation). He said:
"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."
-As quoted in TIME magazine (6 December 1993) (yes, 1993!)
Furthermore, on a separate note, the media angle that Bitcoin is practically "over" because of China blocking it (which that same friend was gloating about), here's all I have to say as well:
Here's a list of enterprises that were hardly destroyed after being banned in glorious all-powerful China:
Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Wikipedia, WikiLeaks, and the New York Times' online edition (and a few others, named at the following links) were each NOT blasted into nonexistence by the force of "the Golden Shield Project," which we Americans call "the Great Firewall." Yup, Bitcoin is "over"!
Hey, but waddaya know - Some of the 1,350,695,000 people in The People's Republic have ways around that censorship, as do the millions of people in so many other Internet-censoring countries:

Here's the full video of the Bitcoin debate:
Edit/Follow-up: To extend the analogy of P2P digital currencies and P2P file-sharing (and most notably, music-sharing), what would be the currency equivalent of iTunes, which came ou in January 2001? Will JPMorgan's crypto-currency project (as I saw here, and it was downvoted to hell:, even though it was initially rejected 175 times, find some way to charge/surcharge people small amounts at a time for usage (a la iTunes' 99 cents per song), in traditional-bank-style?
submitted by wazzzzah to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Mine & buy as many Lottocoin as you can now!

As someone who once owned over 100k of Worldcoins & MEC coins (when they were worth nothing) my suggestion to everyone is to HOLD your coins!. Dont be tempted into dumping them now (no you wont end up buying them back once the price starts to just doesnt happen..). If I had those MEC or WDC NOW they would be worth $70-$120K.
DO NOT SELL. Hoard as much as you can.
Bitcoin did NOT become worth millions overnight. Neither did Worldcoin or Megacoin, or ANY other coin. These coins took months & years to reach their current value & Lottocoin will follow the same path. Its the same with Facebook and Twitter..they took 4-5 years to get to the point where they were worth BIG $$. Do not sell - I cant emphasise this enough. Make a backup of your LOT wallets and put them away for at least 3 months before you even look at the price again (and even then do NOT is going to be worth much much more).
In the meantime, tell your friends about lottocoin, promote it on the internet, create services & uses for it, mine it, and BUY it while its worth nothing. You will be eternally grateful to me if you do (as well as make a LOT of $$ longterm).
submitted by dscomp to Lottocoin [link] [comments]

Selling potions for altcoins/cryptocurrencies

Hello, I am looking to farm potions and sell them for less popular cryptocurrencies than bitcoin/litecoin. You may make an offer based on the value of the cryptocurrency/potion. As long as it is reasonable and on my list of accepted cryptocurrencies I will accept.
Accepted cryptocurrencies
Billioncoin Cagecoin Colossuscoin Dimecoin Dogecoin Earthcoin Fedoracoin Gamecoin Grain Incakoin Kittehcoin Lottocoin mooncoin OnlineGamingCoin OpenSourceCoin Particle QuickQuickCoin StableCoin VelocityCoin WorldCoin Xivra
Here is my value of potions in $ Def - $0.10 Dex- $0.03 Spd- $0.05 Atk-$0.15 Wis- $0.03 Vit-$0.03
edit: ty creamlog, i meant 0.03 and 0.05. my bad.
Please provide an offer based on the cryptocurrency you are offering and the price of the potions i listed. Ty
submitted by jsmoothz to rotmgtradingpost [link] [comments]

1st BTC/Altcoin Mining Guide, Feedback Welcome!

When I decided to write this guide, I was throwing cryptocurrencies around like they were nothing. I was foolish in the fact that I disregarded the exchange fees that are attached with the services that those exchanges provided. I'm in by no means a cryptocurrency genius, and I'm still not extremely seasoned at it, but I've learned enough about cryptocurrencies in the past month that I feel confident to pass on the knowledge I have learned and to help those who are overwhelmed on where to start.
So what exactly is a cryptocurrency? According to technopedia (n.d.) a Cryptocurrency is a type of digital currency that is based on cryptography. Cryptocurrency uses cryptography for security, making it difficult to counterfeit. Public and private keys are often used to transfer the currency from one person to another.
When mining cryptocurrencies, one important concept needs to be established, and that's hash rate. Hash rate is simply a unit of measurement of processing power. The more your hash rate is, the more profitable mining becomes.
This guide uses specific sites and software, chosen by myself, as a great springboard into the cryptocurrency world. These sites and software are extremely flexible, easy to use, and integrate very well together. The mining pools I've chosen are multiple currency pools, designed to consolidate a major of the cryptocurrencies together, and instead of using several mining pools, you use three.
These are the things you'll need to get started: MultiMiner
Accounts at Coinotron, The Mining Pool Co., and BitMinter
Accounts at Cryptsy and Coinbase
There are a few different ways to mine for cryptocurrencies, the common of which are using your Central Processing Unit (CPU), Graphics Processing Unit (GPU), and Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC) devices. CPU based mining is not profitable any longer, and will cost you money in the end by increasing electricity costs. GPU based mining is still popular, but losing steam against ASIC based mining. If you choose to use your GPU for mining, AMD/ATI based graphics cards (especially the Radeon HD 79xx series of cards), are the most efficient. If you have an nVidia based graphics card, I'm sorry. You can still mine on nVidia cards, but your hash rates are going to be much slower when compared to their AMD/ATI counterparts. If you chose to use GPU mining, Black Friday or Cyber Monday are you best bets for upgrading your equipment. ASIC based mining is quickly losing value with the changing difficulty on all networks, but it's the most cost effective way to increase your hash rate, and see a positive return on any equipment purchases. If my math is correct, using the methods in this guide, in order for any ASIC device to yield a positive cash flow, you've got to get a device that has at least a 5Gh/s rate (such as the Butterfly Labs Jalapeno).
Now for the fun part, explaining how everything in this well greased machine is going to work. Patience plays a big part in the cryptocurrency world, and when I first started, I had none. I was so eager to see the amount of Bitcoin go up, regardless of how much I was getting penalized in fees from trading. So, that's the first step on your journey. PATIENCE. I CANNOT emphasize this enough. Sometimes, you've just got to hurry up and wait, the effects of waiting things out on the cryptocurrency market WILL PAY OFF.
Step one of this machine is signing up for all three pools (BitMinter, Coinotron, and Mining Pool Co.). This is so that you can actually get server addresses to plug into MultiMiner, after signing up for these services though, you've still got a ways to go.
Step two is sign up for Cryptsy. I chose Cryptsy because of the features they're going to offer at a later time, as well as support for 60 cryptocurrencies (which covers all but one of which we can mine). When your Cryptsy account is setup, you will need to go into the Balances portion of Cryptsy, and find all of the currencies in which you will be mining from the pools. Once Balances are loaded up, you will need to click on the Actions button next to the currency, and click Deposit / Autosell, and then Generate Address. There's a small clipboard near the address it generated, and that will copy the address for pasting in the mining pool websites. You will want to copy, and paste all of them to a text document, along with which currency it belongs to. Not only does this keep you from juggling back and forth trying to figure out things, but it helps for reference and setting up MultiMiner.
Once you have those accounts setup, you'll want to sign up for Coinbase. A WORD OF WARNING FOR THOSE WHO ARE PARANOID... Coinbase will want to link to a bank account, this is mandatory if you want to trade your currencies for cash. If you want to trade currencies, just for the sake of trading, then you can skip Coinbase altogether. You can transfer your Bitcoins from Cryptsy straight into Coinbase, and then sell the Bitcoins from Coinbase, and straight into your designated bank account.
MultiMiner, oh how amazing you are. For every cryptocurrency available in all pools, you will need to add these coins, along with server addresses, log-ins and passwords. To do so, click on the drop down next to the Settings button, and click Coins. From there, click on Add Coin, and choose each coin from a pool. This will list it in the box to the left, and give you the ability to add information on the right. You can add multiple servers as well, in case the current server you're mining on goes down. After all your coins are setup, you'll need to setup your Strategies. Click the drop down next to Settings, and chose Strategies. Check the Enable Strategies check box, choosing Straight Profitability from the drop down, and checking the Strategy every five minutes (that way you're not losing money by mining something that has dropped in price). This aggressive price checking makes it to where you're always on top with whatever you're mining. Also make sure you have Mine the Single Most Profitable Coin selected. Stick with CoinChoose as your price source (under Settings), as CoinWarz charges for there services beyond a certain point. Click Start, and take a vacation.
Reading the charts on Cryptsy can be a little tricky, and scary if you've never saw those types of graphs before. Those graphs are called Candlestick Charts, and are used primarily in the stock market. I won't go in to great detail on this, however, you can find a nice cheat sheet on the subject here.
I hope everyone enjoyed the guide, sorry for being punctual and brief, but there isn't anything too elaborate of complicated about searching for cryptocurrencies. I love mining as a hobby, mining's fun, and if there is any money to be made off of mining from my end, great, if not, I had fun mining.
While compiling a spreadsheet of the minable currencies in this guide, if everything is set up correctly (and assuming servers aren't down), you should be able to mine the following:
And while Mining Pool Co. offers ASICcoin and Unobtainium, ASICcoin isn't supported in MultiMiner, and Unobtanium isn't supported in Cryptsy. I still mine for Unobtanium in hopes that Cryptsy will include it one day.
Cryptocurrency. (n.d.). In technopedia. Retrieved from
submitted by ford0415 to BitcoinMining [link] [comments]

Dogecoin should evolve organically

There's a lot of sentiment in here that doge should be removed from bitcoin in terms of its value, most likely due to the recent dive in price. If you noticed, a lot of coins took a hit (looking at you worldcoin) but a few remained stable, dogecoin being one of those.
BTC goes down and people go nuts. Do you not realize BTC will probably be well over $1000 by the end of the year?? Prices ebb and flow—they move. Just because BTC hit a temporary snag does not mean their fate is sealed. Imagine if people jumped off the dogewagon after the dogemas fiasco.
Can we all just relax and stop pushing our agendas? The best thing we can do for Dogecoin, as a collective, is let evolve organically, on its own, without pressure from lobbyists...
If doge needs to cut it's cord to BTC, it will happen, when it's the right time.HCZABB
submitted by NiceBreakfast to dogecoin [link] [comments]

Good luck folks.

I know I am out of the game now, having divested myself of my Quarks, but I sincerely hope all the level heads here find a way to re-build momentum and create an incentive for people be open to different opinions in this subreddit, rather than just towing a line, or throwing stop-think labels on any perceived threats to Quarks very existence.
Criticism unto itself is not a bad thing and both individuals and communities grow by virtue of their constructive use of it. I hope all of you guys (and gals?) with a higher risk tolerance than me do make good on your speculations with Quark, but, I do worry for Quark because of the huge teenage-element of people who think they are defending it with long-armed righteous spear-jabs, as if Xerxes himself was personally coming for their baby Spartans, rather than soberly assessing Quark as an investment vehicle instead of the life and death struggle of an ancient city-state.
Don't tolerate insults, or people who tell you to shut up, or go away. Invite people in here who may have different views, or at least consider what they want to say. The bottom line is that WE ALL want to profit and make good on our speculations, be that they may differ, not-withstanding.
Be open to changing your mind and acting in your own-self interest, because at the end of the day the word 'community' means 'my idea of community' in everyone's minds, and so do not retreat into the fantasy that markets are built and moved by gently held hands and warm patient hugs.
Quark's fate is an aggregate of individual choices, and I hope new people here make their own, and that the relative-veterans don't hide behind ready-made labels and repeated refrains, as a substitute for critical thinking and initiative.
I know there will be any number of people reading this who want to shit on me no matter what, because they think my motive is just to 'talk shit on Quark', or be a 'concern troll', and so on. Or, they say, all I do is spread fear. I spread my opinion, and often it doesn't seem popular with the true-believers. I never said I have the answers.
Anyone who stifles dialog with labels isn't your ally, or Quark's, despite pretenses to the contrary, and I think, in a moment of sober analysis, anyone can agree with this no matter what subject is being discussed or idea trying to be developed.
Last but not least, I don't think quark is a scam,or anyone is stupid for holding or buying it, but, I know, speaking for myself, I spent a lot of time worrying and holding it, while the value dropped and dropped, and ignoring what I otherwise genuinely felt was good information I was learning about the prospects of other coins. Worldcoin happens to be one of those coins but, of course, it could turn out to be worthless.
Since I sold my Quark I was able to regain some of my profit by buying into Digitalcoin (which has raised in value since this recent alt-slump). I bought Worldcoin a few days ago and I have lost value in it since, but, had I kept only quark, i would be sleepless by this point because I would have lost 80 percent of my original investment.
My advice, if I can so presumptuous to share it, since I, too, probably like most of us, is so new at this... is this:
Use Twitter as a source of information. The people who pump and dump are open about doing so, for the most part---it isn't a state-secret of theirs. And, otherwise, these same guys make a killing day to day because they have been watching bitcoin since its early days or they trade stocks and currencies outside of cryptos. No matter what, they are incredibly amusing and I learn a lot by just observing their thought processes. which you can apply to your own decisions. Don't just watch
I recommend you find these guys and follow them: (especially...)
Keep in mind that, yes, we are all in it to win it but the beauty of free-markets is that one person's gain is NOT necessarily another person's loss. Market's rise and fall together, like individual investors, depending on the circumstances.
In the short-term, yes, big-fish can exploit you if you act rashly or on poor information (as I feel I did, with Quark) but ultimately if they want a coin to succeed as a long-term investment then likely so will you. They are just going to buy and sell at the highs/lows and do it better. But it doesn't mean you can't do it. Just do it with an open mind and don't devote yourself to a coin like it is a religion or political mission.
The world is already changing, the cat is out of the bag and cryptos are here to stay. There is no telling which one(s) will carry the day for years to come. But, keep making educated guesses and investing based on those informed assessments.
Name calling stops information, and that hurts your ability to make or hear about good investments.
This is not a zero-sum game, and neither is life.
Good luck!
submitted by PoopKingOfRome to QuarkCoin [link] [comments]

[Table] IAmA: We are Adam, Mike, Ryan, Angelo and Ken of Vault of Satoshi (Canadian Bitcoin Exchange) AUA! And Raise Money for Cancer Research!

Verified? (This bot cannot verify AMAs just yet)
Date: 2014-04-08
Link to submission (Has self-text)
Questions Answers
How does your company plan on staying competitive with other local exchanges coming out? Any plans on making an app? The company was started by Mike and Ryan, crypto-enthusiasts who saw problems in the marketplace when dealing in cryptos. They wanted an exchange that had a strong support team, legal visibility, operated somewhere where you could trust your money and had strong security - so in short they built it! We expect really big things for VoS and do indeed intend to be competitive with other exchanges, and yes, that does include building an app - we're currently exploring options in that field but we feel it crucial to take our time in doing that and put security first.
Why is it important for bitcoin companies to donate to charities? Or people to donate with cryptocurrency? Just wanna say thanks for being in the btc community and helping it grow and spread it around. Is there a lot of pressure on you now that you got your MSB? Any pressure from banks or government on how to behave? As for Charity we just feel its the right thing to do, I've always been a strong supporter of charities in my daily life and I brought that forward to VoS and the team agreed it made sense to gather up some funds for the Canadian Cancer Society given that April is their big fundraising month. On a grander scale I think it's important for cryptocurrencies to play a positive role in the world, let people know what we are all about, there is a lot of negative stigma about cryptos, some people say it's just kids "printing money", but it's a lot harder to say that when you're positively changing the world!
There's not any more pressure on us now than there was before - in fact I would say the MSB has taken some of the pressure off. We instead hold ourselves to the same laws and scrutiny as any financial institution would have to, and we feel this is best for our users and this sector as a whole. Getting the MSB let us know we had done everything right so far, and being in a new and evolving industry it's not always too clear if you're taking the right steps. The MSB is a checkmark that says "Hey you guys are as legitimate as you say you are" and we'll continue to hold ourselves to what ever rigorous standards we can (even when we don't need too). As far as external entities like Banks and Government - I think they are happy to see we have our MSB, I think it makes them more comfortable with the field in general and more willing to work with us. We recently met with our Member of Provincial Parliament and are setting up meetings with our Member of Parliament, and our Minister of Finance so they can see our operation here! The MPP certainly loved what we've got going!
That was a fast reply. Thanks for the response, you guys always been good with customer service :p . And thats great Mike and Ryan stepped up to be the ones to do it, it's a really much needed addition to the Toronto bitcoin scene. Oh man if Timmies was a payment I don't think Canada would need cryptocurrencies at all! Timbits everywhere! We love Tim Hortons - we usually start our Monday's with group coffee and donuts! So we are never opposed Timmies if you are dropping by for a visit :P (Compliance disclaimer: Timmies is not a valid payment method, just a staple at all Canadian meetings)
We also feel the importance of charities, especially with the nature of the bitcoin community always being a giving one. I hope you guys see good results n help the bitcoin image. We want to come visit you guys sometime, do you accept Tim Hortons as payment? :p.
The charity that you are donating to, do they accept btc or will you be converting it to fiat? We'll be convert it to Fiat.
Any plans on an Android app? We are looking into this, no formal timeline, but we're certainly exploring it!
It would be great if the volume would increase, can you comment on what is the strategy for getting more costumers? We are actually making a big push this spring in regards to our volume, including launching a highly competitive affiliates program that expect will grow our volume a great deal.
Any chance on improving the charts? (Or being included in bitcoinwisdom) We're always happy to take feedback on our charts, let us know what you want to see! As for Bitcoinwisdom, we've reached out to them multiple times, and added all the API support they need - just waiting on them to hopefully add us!
It currently takes ~3 days to get funds added to the balance, I presume that is mostly for security and because banks suck, are there plans to reduce this waiting time? We're looking at adding instant online debit transactions, no formal timeline on that yet but we are sure it will be great for our customers!
Glad SonOfAragon asked those questions so I don't end up repeating them and thanks for your reply Adam. However can you give us an idea of when you plan to launch the affiliates program/make the big push? If I sign up for an account, I'd probably want to beat the rush. We're actively working towards our affiliate program and our intention is to have it sometime this spring!
As someone who is completely ignorant of all things internet currency. can you please tell me how a beginner would go about getting into investing? (Lets say I have $10k of disposable income currently, would you suggest investing it all in bitcoin?) Hey Buildingdreams4,
That's a pretty hard question to answer, and so I can't give you an official Vault of Satoshi answer but I can give you a personal opinion. So please note this is my two cents and nothing VoS official.
Personally I have some experience in day trading and that's the best way to make money in such markets - however that's the kind of situation where you have to take risks, actively watch the market and only ever trade with what you have to lose (not only to avoid loss but also to make sure you are willing to take the level of risk needed to make strong returns.) I'd highly recommend learning about Forex trading before you dive into this.
That being said the Bitcoin community still feels strongly that their currency value will rise, subject to merchant adoption, legal/political landscapes and a number of other factors but I can't really comment on that as it is a real challenge to predict; there is also a great deal of merit to a number of altcoins with unique value - but just make sure you research and make informed decisions. Don't take anyone's advice at face value (mine included) research and invest where you feel comfortable.
What does vault think about VOS bitcoin atms? What can we do as customers to help you guys make this site better? As far as what customers can do - simply share the love! Tell your friends about VoS and always feel free to reach out to is with what you want to see on our site.
What about a physical location for vault deposits and verifications? We are currently examining new infrastructure opportunities that would allow us to accept physical deposits in more locations and we hope to have more information about that soon!
How does your reporting with with CRA? As for the CRA reporting I'm not sure what your exact question is, but as a registered business we report to the CRA in a typical fashion.
Is there any way to shorten deposit times? I'm super impressed that I can pay you like a bill directly from my bank account, but I'm bummed about how long it takes. If I send money to my vos account on a Thursday, I may not see those funds until Monday or Tuesday. If the exchange is open for trading on weekends, how about processing deposits as well? Hey Jay.
Also, what is done with the confidential info people upload to become verified? is it deleted? if it's kept on file, is access to it restricted to certain employees? We're currently working on a system that will allow immediate deposits via online debit! No formal time line yet but that will indeed make things much quicker!
Keep up the good work! Thank you. As for confidential information, if you have ever made a financial transaction on our website then we are required by law to keep a copy of that information. We take this responsibility very seriously, this information is encrypted and stored securely and is most certainly restricted access!
That's cool! Awesomesauce! I'm looking forward to it! Do you know if it will be limited like QuickBT (.2 BTC) or if there is some kind of daily limit? Also: when trading doge to btc I swear it took me half an hour to figure exactly how many doge I could buy with my btc including the fee. And I did it all wrong. I still have like .00066 btc left in my account which I guess is forfeit to the ether... Is there any way to put a helpful calculator on that page that figures it out for you??? As for your other question, as Xangelo said, we are working on improving the layout of our coin to coin system to make it less complicated. Being one of the first major exchanges to offer any coin to any coin means there is going to have to be some tweaking while we find out what the marketplace likes! But we're always open to feedback!
Would you rather fight a horse-sized duck or a hundred duck sized horses? Please elaborate. Feel free to answer individually. If there is anything that years of video game playing has taught me it's always pick the bigger monster over a ton of little ones! A hundred duck sized horses could quite quickly surround and nip and kick from all angles. Where as I feel that whilst a horse-sized duck would be absolutely terrifying my odds are better as I can always keep it in front of me (and perhaps distract it with breadcrumbs)
Also do you guys have any plans to change the buy/sell mechanic? I find its way too easy to accidentally make a buy order when you meant to make a sell order. As for the buy/sell mechanic it is something we are actively implementing and expect to launch in a couple weeks! Will make it easier to keep that straight!
My question: To be honest I've been using CaVirtex.How* would you say yours is better? We stand by our service as we are sure they do theirs, but at the end of the day it's about what better suits your needs. At the end of the day competition makes the market better for everybody!
Specifically, I would like to know what the nature of their cooperation and level of engagement is. Do they provide VoS with the absolute minimum of services as they would with any other business? Are they accommodative to specific VoS needs and requests related to crypto-currency specific challenges? Are they mutually active in developing services and infrastructure to support VoS/crypto-currencies? Are they taking a leading role in facilitating the necessary changes to support this new industry and growing public demand? Are you provided with a liaison to facilitate a closer working relationship? That being said when we did work with them they were fantastic, very supportive, and loved our business; the local branch went to some great lengths to help with our unique challenges and we certainly hope we can work with them again in the future.
Thanks for the reply! I feared as much having read about Cointrader in Vancouver being cut off by BMO in February. If I can follow up, how are your banking needs currently being met? We're currently actually streamlining our financials and will have more announcements on this soon. New partnerships are opening up doors to new payment methods and currencies and we're excited about that.
Are you planning to offer other services with altcoins? or you want to keep it solely as an exchange? We are exploring services beyond just exchange services - but we have no formal timelines on them yet! We'll be sure to let folks know!
Are you operating a full or fractional reserve and how much liquidity do you have available if tomorrow all clients wanted to withdraw all their funds? We are a full reserve exchange. We do have our holdings divided between our hot and cold wallets and top our hot wallet as it gets low. But we do have all the BTC we claim to and are actively working on a Proof of Solvency tool to verify this to users.
Which altcoins do you see as strongest going forward? Anything that has a unique value proposition and a strong community has the ability to go places but it's pretty hard to gauge these in advanced. We expect great things from the coins we've added/intend to add over the next month, which have all been announced.
Good to know Yubikey's available, thanks xangelo. Maybe one of your execs can chime in on the qualifications needed to join your verification team but that has me wondering...if a customer opens an account with VoS, can they still be hired, then close their account of course, or is that an automatic disqualification? By the way I didn't see a careers section on your site, are there plans for that once volume and I guess revenue increase? Just because you have an account with us, does not mean that you would be barred from applying for a job.
Currently we don't have any openings but when we do we'll be posting them to our website and all current positions would be located at our Brantford office.
Our verification system was designed by our exec team and our compliance officer and aided by our legal team; and our support staff handle the verifications. (Wasn't sure what you meant by "verification team") as for requirements for any opening, we'll be sure to post them with up coming jobs! Thanks for your inquiry though!
Thanks for clearing that up, I appreciate your thoroughness. Yes sorry, I was just speaking about FinCen to someone else before replying to this. I did mean Fintrac and I've edited the post!
I don't want to draw this exchange out too much but what puzzles me is your statement about FinCen compliance. If you're currently not accepting US customers, why would FinCEN compliance even be relevant? Let's say a customer lives in Canada. Wouldn't you simply have to comply with FINTRAC regulations, seeing as that's an a Canadian agency? And one other thing. Does Vos report transaction details to the CRA to meet fiscal obligations? As for CRA reporting I can not comment on that, however we follow all legal requirements of a financial institution dealing with proper reporting.
How does the US IRS deal effect things on your end? did this announcement open the door back up for USD wire transfers? The IRS statement actually doesn't change to much for us, FinCEN and other entities still consider it as currency - we're still actively looking into US options and moving forward on some with our legal team.
Do you see cryptocurrency status changing in Canada as a result of the US ruling? Do you have any indication of the direction that the bureaucrats will take? We have met with our Member of Provincial Parliament, are meeting with our Member of Parliament and are having a meeting with the Minister of Finance arranged to continue to advocate on behalf of cryptocurrency in Canada.
From everything we've been hearing, we're optimistic about Canada's role in the future of Cryptocurrency, people have been very forward thinking and accepting here!
Disapointed you're getting ride of the free cash-out by cheque. And do you plan to have some sort of automated EFT withdraw ? you allready have my bank account into. Write now it would seem simpler to move my BTC to cavirtex when I'm ready to make a withdraw to my bank account, as I can do it from the website. What am I missing here ? thanks. We are rolling out a number of new payment methods shortly that will make withdrawals easier for our clients.
Hey guys, thanks for doing this AMA. You were my first exchange, and gave me a warm welcome to the world of Cryptocurrency (free trading through Reddit promo, invited me for Doge cake) I've actually had the pleasure of talking to some reps from the MintChip program - we kept a careful eye on it but I know that the Mint is selling it off to private enterprise. While it is in a different space from us we are always looking at the evolving landscape of digital money and what can be done to promote that in Canada.
I was going to ask about your stance on MintChip, the Canadian government's digital currency program, but I just read they were looking to sell it off! Has there been any interest at Vault of Satoshi about this technology? While I don't think there is any direct partnership opportunities at this time it is always something on our radar and I think that MintChip was an interesting hardware development and it was great to see a federal institution being so forward thinking!
Can you tell us when and if you'll be able to operate as an exchange with USD? We currently do accept USD, we just can't accept it from US citizens or institutions.
That being said we are glad to announce we have identified our US re-entry strategy and are moving forward to launching in a few states first. We have no formal timeline on this yet, but it's a big step in the right direction.
Quick question, if in the future I choose to close my account with VOS, will all my info and history also be deleted from your servers? As per government regulations if you have ever made a financial transaction we are required to keep your information on file for seven years.
If you have not made a financial transaction you may email us with a request to delete your information. Please note that the request will be kept on file.
Hey guys, Are there plans to incorporate google authenticator? Thanks and keep up the good work! User we already support Google Authenticator, YubiKey, SMS, and Email for 2FA and will be adding Authy and Gemalto soon!
Is your $99 per month Unlimited Plan in USD or CAD? Please state it on your website. It is currently billed in USD as that's more widely accepted with our international audience.
When will Darkcoin, Worldcoin, Mintcoin, Cryptogenic Bullion, and Maxcoin be added? Those coins will be added in the next few weeks! We're pretty excited about that!
Hi there! I have a level 2 VOS account. I'm not really comfortable filling out the form for level 3. Currently I have to use QuickBT or an ATM to get BTC - which sometimes I turn into DOGE. (THANK YOU FOR ADDING BTC<->DOGE! you guys are lifesavers!!) We're actually working on adding an instant online Interac payment system, still no formal timeline but it's in the works. As for email transfers from BMO, BMO has come out and said they aren't working with businesses that operate in cryptocurrencies and so we can't accept funds from them on anything that would require us to have a BMO account or registration there. But, we can accept Pre-authorized debit and wire transfers from accounts there! Also feel free to email me about any concerns you may have about the level 3 account and I'll see if can't reassure you! ([email protected])
Just wondering why there is no support for an Email Transfer from BMO. Or online Interac payment, as that's the only reason I use QuickBT.
Would you rather fight a horse-sized duck or a hundred duck sized horse. I prefer horse sized ducks! What a kamikaze!
Don't be so sure. YES! Take that Angelo! Horsefish!
'disabled login' Another word, the exchange is down. I've been trying to login and access my funds for the past 5 hours. We're back up now!
No need to be alarmed though people; this is just a result of VoS being pro-active with patching up the latest SSL security bug (heartbleed). Ah yes, that is indeed a side-effect of the patch. While our systems weren't directly effected a load balance server hosted by Amazon would have been so to be better safe than sorry we've got them patching it and we are rolling over to new SSL certs! Always better safe than sorry!
I can see your exchange being the top exchange in Canada. Great work! I will come up to brantford one day after my exams and bring you guys some timmies, depending on the weather it could be coffee or ice caps, or just let me know ha :) As for the UI we're currently giving it an overhaul on our internal servers and hope to have more info on that soon!
I know it's not much but I just sent 6000 Dogecoins :) Every bit helps :)
Whats the yearly revenue and profit of your company? Sorry, as a private company we are going to abstain from answering that one - but even if we wanted too, we couldn't; we've only been around for six months so far!
Last updated: 2014-04-12 19:27 UTC
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